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	<title>Comments on: Current Value Trap, &#8217;00-&#8217;02 Comparison, VIX (VXO) Levels</title>
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	<link>http://www.focalequity.com/2008/10/11/the-current-value-trap-00-02-comparisson-current-vix-vxo-levels/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=the-current-value-trap-00-02-comparisson-current-vix-vxo-levels</link>
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		<title>By: death proof</title>
		<link>http://www.focalequity.com/2008/10/11/the-current-value-trap-00-02-comparisson-current-vix-vxo-levels/comment-page-1/#comment-5031</link>
		<dc:creator>death proof</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 07:13:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stocktock.com/?p=6424#comment-5031</guid>
		<description>Thank you for your comprehensive explanation. I see things much clearly now. I greatly appreciate the time and effort you put in your comments. Learning a great deal from you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for your comprehensive explanation. I see things much clearly now. I greatly appreciate the time and effort you put in your comments. Learning a great deal from you.</p>
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		<title>By: Mohan</title>
		<link>http://www.focalequity.com/2008/10/11/the-current-value-trap-00-02-comparisson-current-vix-vxo-levels/comment-page-1/#comment-5022</link>
		<dc:creator>Mohan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 01:36:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stocktock.com/?p=6424#comment-5022</guid>
		<description>There are two sides to each trade. Covered calls and puts are never a problem. The guy who sold the puts naked might have done so thinking that it is easy money. His original strategy might have been to short the market if and when market goes down to certain level. This is called dynamic hedging or delta hedging. Under normal corrections, the houses and big hedge funds will have enough liquidity to turn things in their favor and make the options they sold worthless. 

What we are witnessing is no ordinary correction. Even big houses are broke. Heck, even the government is broke. Unless this market quickly turns around, those sellers of naked puts on indexes will be broke.

Here is the biggest shocker to me... None other than Warren Buffet (through his Berkshire Hathaway) is stuck in this derivatives mess. This explains why he is so heavily pushing for the bailout. He called this sell off an &quot;Economic Pearl Harbor.&quot; Now I know why.

Buffett&#039;s Berkshire, meantime, fell sharply last week, as its class A shares dropped over $25,000, or 18%, to $113,100. Berkshire&#039;s equity portfolio, which stood at $69 billion on June 30, is falling in value, although it&#039;s ahead of the major averages this year. Berkshire has written, or sold, long-dated put options on some $40 billion of equity indexes, including the S&amp;P 500. Those put sales, which amount to a bullish market bet, are deep in the red, although Berkshire doesn&#039;t have to post collateral against any paper losses. We estimate those puts could have cost Berkshire as much as $2 billion in the third quarter and several billion more dollars this quarter, with the S&amp;P down over 20%. Berkshire ultimately may score with these puts if they expire worthless at maturity between 2019 and 2027. But the normally savvy Buffett made a mistake investing in financial derivatives, about which he has long warned. Berkshire had no comment.

He did this after giving several lectures on ill effects of the monster called derivatives. There goes my respect for the man whom I thought is the most honest man in America. 

 I heard rumors about Buffet getting stuck in derivatives trade. But I dismissed the rumors. After reading Barron&#039;s article on this, for the first time, I am really scared on how this will end.

Here is the link to Barron&#039;s article.

http://online.barrons.com/article/SB122369310004425503.html?mod=b_hps_9_0001_b_this_weeks_magazine_home_left&amp;page=2</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are two sides to each trade. Covered calls and puts are never a problem. The guy who sold the puts naked might have done so thinking that it is easy money. His original strategy might have been to short the market if and when market goes down to certain level. This is called dynamic hedging or delta hedging. Under normal corrections, the houses and big hedge funds will have enough liquidity to turn things in their favor and make the options they sold worthless. </p>
<p>What we are witnessing is no ordinary correction. Even big houses are broke. Heck, even the government is broke. Unless this market quickly turns around, those sellers of naked puts on indexes will be broke.</p>
<p>Here is the biggest shocker to me&#8230; None other than Warren Buffet (through his Berkshire Hathaway) is stuck in this derivatives mess. This explains why he is so heavily pushing for the bailout. He called this sell off an &#8220;Economic Pearl Harbor.&#8221; Now I know why.</p>
<p>Buffett&#8217;s Berkshire, meantime, fell sharply last week, as its class A shares dropped over $25,000, or 18%, to $113,100. Berkshire&#8217;s equity portfolio, which stood at $69 billion on June 30, is falling in value, although it&#8217;s ahead of the major averages this year. Berkshire has written, or sold, long-dated put options on some $40 billion of equity indexes, including the S&amp;P 500. Those put sales, which amount to a bullish market bet, are deep in the red, although Berkshire doesn&#8217;t have to post collateral against any paper losses. We estimate those puts could have cost Berkshire as much as $2 billion in the third quarter and several billion more dollars this quarter, with the S&amp;P down over 20%. Berkshire ultimately may score with these puts if they expire worthless at maturity between 2019 and 2027. But the normally savvy Buffett made a mistake investing in financial derivatives, about which he has long warned. Berkshire had no comment.</p>
<p>He did this after giving several lectures on ill effects of the monster called derivatives. There goes my respect for the man whom I thought is the most honest man in America. </p>
<p> I heard rumors about Buffet getting stuck in derivatives trade. But I dismissed the rumors. After reading Barron&#8217;s article on this, for the first time, I am really scared on how this will end.</p>
<p>Here is the link to Barron&#8217;s article.</p>
<p><a href="http://online.barrons.com/article/SB122369310004425503.html?mod=b_hps_9_0001_b_this_weeks_magazine_home_left&#038;page=2" rel="nofollow">http://online.barrons.com/article/SB122369310004425503.html?mod=b_hps_9_0001_b_this_weeks_magazine_home_left&#038;page=2</a></p>
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		<title>By: brian</title>
		<link>http://www.focalequity.com/2008/10/11/the-current-value-trap-00-02-comparisson-current-vix-vxo-levels/comment-page-1/#comment-5019</link>
		<dc:creator>brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 21:51:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stocktock.com/?p=6424#comment-5019</guid>
		<description>The puts are underwater from the perspective of the seller or writer of the put. The buyer of the put is doing well, it is the entity that wrote the put that is deep underwater.  Usually these are financial institutions, the ones that can least afford to have further stresses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The puts are underwater from the perspective of the seller or writer of the put. The buyer of the put is doing well, it is the entity that wrote the put that is deep underwater.  Usually these are financial institutions, the ones that can least afford to have further stresses.</p>
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		<title>By: Nurseb911</title>
		<link>http://www.focalequity.com/2008/10/11/the-current-value-trap-00-02-comparisson-current-vix-vxo-levels/comment-page-1/#comment-5018</link>
		<dc:creator>Nurseb911</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 20:56:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stocktock.com/?p=6424#comment-5018</guid>
		<description>Very good analysis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very good analysis.</p>
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		<title>By: death proof</title>
		<link>http://www.focalequity.com/2008/10/11/the-current-value-trap-00-02-comparisson-current-vix-vxo-levels/comment-page-1/#comment-5017</link>
		<dc:creator>death proof</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 20:14:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stocktock.com/?p=6424#comment-5017</guid>
		<description>Mohan, can you explain that last part?

&quot;Many put options sellers are deep under water. If the markets do not rebound significantly next week, we are looking at an abyss on Friday the 17th or Monday the 20th. One positive note is that option put-call ratios improved during the day on Friday. Delta hedging on the upside actually helps markets stage a rally.&quot;

A put option gives the holder the right to sell an underlying security to the writer of the option, at a specified price, up to a specified date. As I understand it, if the price of the underlying security goes down, the put will rise in value.

So why would the puts be underwater now? And the rest of your train of thought I just don&#039;t get...Please explain!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mohan, can you explain that last part?</p>
<p>&#8220;Many put options sellers are deep under water. If the markets do not rebound significantly next week, we are looking at an abyss on Friday the 17th or Monday the 20th. One positive note is that option put-call ratios improved during the day on Friday. Delta hedging on the upside actually helps markets stage a rally.&#8221;</p>
<p>A put option gives the holder the right to sell an underlying security to the writer of the option, at a specified price, up to a specified date. As I understand it, if the price of the underlying security goes down, the put will rise in value.</p>
<p>So why would the puts be underwater now? And the rest of your train of thought I just don&#8217;t get&#8230;Please explain!</p>
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		<title>By: TheStockJock</title>
		<link>http://www.focalequity.com/2008/10/11/the-current-value-trap-00-02-comparisson-current-vix-vxo-levels/comment-page-1/#comment-5011</link>
		<dc:creator>TheStockJock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 18:10:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stocktock.com/?p=6424#comment-5011</guid>
		<description>Lets not forget that for the most part we are trying to find a near term bottom that we can trade off.  Is the final bottom in? Perhaps, perhaps not, I would tend to think at this point a test of the dot com lows is probably in order as there isn&#039;t really any significant support level where we are sitting now.  What I would like to see is a large scale bounce as what is perceived as value is bought.  We don&#039;t need to figure out where the true values lie just where they are perceived as being of value as that will (as stated) attract the early /eager value seekers.  

If you are a long term investor you can gamble with a small position here because NO ONE really knows where the bottom is until months/years after it has happened.  This is still a high risk environment and if you are a long term holder I would actually want to pick up a small position of a few choice stocks here.  If this is the bottom, great you&#039;ve picked the bottom, if it isn&#039;t then when we get to what looks like a bottom again I would suggest pushing in another small position into those stocks and lowering you&#039;re average cost.  I like to do this using dollar value rather than share size as for the same dollar value you&#039;ll get more shares and end up at a lower price entry.  The key point here is SMALL POSITIONS, you never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever want to take large risk at dangerous points in the market.  This is good risk management and regardless of being an investor or a trader or a swing trader if you don&#039;t manage risk properly you are just gambling.

As Michael points out there is lots to support futher downside after this but what we want to find is a tradeable bounce as the early investors get back into the market on perceived value. 

Cheers</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lets not forget that for the most part we are trying to find a near term bottom that we can trade off.  Is the final bottom in? Perhaps, perhaps not, I would tend to think at this point a test of the dot com lows is probably in order as there isn&#8217;t really any significant support level where we are sitting now.  What I would like to see is a large scale bounce as what is perceived as value is bought.  We don&#8217;t need to figure out where the true values lie just where they are perceived as being of value as that will (as stated) attract the early /eager value seekers.  </p>
<p>If you are a long term investor you can gamble with a small position here because NO ONE really knows where the bottom is until months/years after it has happened.  This is still a high risk environment and if you are a long term holder I would actually want to pick up a small position of a few choice stocks here.  If this is the bottom, great you&#8217;ve picked the bottom, if it isn&#8217;t then when we get to what looks like a bottom again I would suggest pushing in another small position into those stocks and lowering you&#8217;re average cost.  I like to do this using dollar value rather than share size as for the same dollar value you&#8217;ll get more shares and end up at a lower price entry.  The key point here is SMALL POSITIONS, you never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever want to take large risk at dangerous points in the market.  This is good risk management and regardless of being an investor or a trader or a swing trader if you don&#8217;t manage risk properly you are just gambling.</p>
<p>As Michael points out there is lots to support futher downside after this but what we want to find is a tradeable bounce as the early investors get back into the market on perceived value. </p>
<p>Cheers</p>
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		<title>By: Mohan</title>
		<link>http://www.focalequity.com/2008/10/11/the-current-value-trap-00-02-comparisson-current-vix-vxo-levels/comment-page-1/#comment-5010</link>
		<dc:creator>Mohan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 17:37:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stocktock.com/?p=6424#comment-5010</guid>
		<description>Michael,

Excellent, Excellent post. Thanks.

I take one exception to your argument. This market, at this time, is trading on a derivatives melt down. NEITHER FUNDAMENTAL NOR CHARTS MATTER until the effect of derivatives is faded.

One of the most important tests market will face this week is option related selling. GS and other investment houses ried their margin requirements and sent letters to large funds on Oct 1 and Oct. That and some delta hedging bought us this severe selling this past week. If they are able to stabilize the market this week, we can expect a 1-2 month rebound. 

In July expiration, they were able to pull the market up by banning naked shorting and in Sept they pulled it up by banning all shorts. This derivatives monster is too big even for the Federal Govt. handle. One should hope some short-covering this week and some other new trick will save the market.

&lt;b&gt;Many put options sellers are deep under water. If the markets do not rebound significantly  next week, we are looking at an abyss on Friday the 17th or Monday the 20th. &lt;/b&gt;One positive note is that option put-call ratios improved during the day on Friday. Delta hedging on the upside actually helps markets stage a rally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael,</p>
<p>Excellent, Excellent post. Thanks.</p>
<p>I take one exception to your argument. This market, at this time, is trading on a derivatives melt down. NEITHER FUNDAMENTAL NOR CHARTS MATTER until the effect of derivatives is faded.</p>
<p>One of the most important tests market will face this week is option related selling. GS and other investment houses ried their margin requirements and sent letters to large funds on Oct 1 and Oct. That and some delta hedging bought us this severe selling this past week. If they are able to stabilize the market this week, we can expect a 1-2 month rebound. </p>
<p>In July expiration, they were able to pull the market up by banning naked shorting and in Sept they pulled it up by banning all shorts. This derivatives monster is too big even for the Federal Govt. handle. One should hope some short-covering this week and some other new trick will save the market.</p>
<p><b>Many put options sellers are deep under water. If the markets do not rebound significantly  next week, we are looking at an abyss on Friday the 17th or Monday the 20th. </b>One positive note is that option put-call ratios improved during the day on Friday. Delta hedging on the upside actually helps markets stage a rally.</p>
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		<title>By: pgrychah</title>
		<link>http://www.focalequity.com/2008/10/11/the-current-value-trap-00-02-comparisson-current-vix-vxo-levels/comment-page-1/#comment-5009</link>
		<dc:creator>pgrychah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 16:43:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stocktock.com/?p=6424#comment-5009</guid>
		<description>Great post. I also don&#039;t think we there yet.
http://social.stocktock.com/profiles/blog/show?id=2348194%3ABlogPost%3A1153</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post. I also don&#8217;t think we there yet.<br />
<a href="http://social.stocktock.com/profiles/blog/show?id=2348194%3ABlogPost%3A1153" rel="nofollow">http://social.stocktock.com/profiles/blog/show?id=2348194%3ABlogPost%3A1153</a></p>
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